From	Phil Jones	Date	Sun Aug 15 10:56:37 2004
To	Susan Solomon, Kevin Trenberth, IPCC-WG1, Martin Manning, Susan Solomon
CC	Phil Jones
Subject	Re: [Fwd: Re: [Wg1-ar4-clas] WGI AR4 LA1 Programme]
Susan, Thanks for the comments. Cheers Phil At 15:51 13/08/2004 -0600, Susan Solomon wrote: Dear Phil, dear Kevin, Thanks for your message. It's very good to hear that you are getting together and will have time to talk about this. I will make a few points and suggestions below for your consideration. Safe travels, Susan Martin, Susan et al, Kevin and I will be at a GCOS meeting Mon-Weds next week in Geneva, so will have some time to discuss our chapter. I've sent Kevin some thoughts about boundaries between chapters. If you can provide your views on a few issues, then it will help us in our discussions. 1. We have extended outlines, which clarify some issues, but how rigid are they? I say this wrt the overviews/visions you expect on the Monday pm of the Trieste meeting. The extended outlines show you what the thought process was at Marrakech and Potsdam that led to the present outlines. It's your report, and you may wish to do things differently. Where that may involve other chapters, such work would need to be coordinated/decided jointly but most things are not like that. 2. In Chapter 3, we have a section 3.9 on synthesis/consistency amongst obs. Does this involve obs such as glacier retreat and changes in sea ice, snow cover from chapters 4-6? Chapters 4-6 don't have similar sections. We had some discussions on that in Potsdam in particular if I recall. Dividing up the observations into three chapters solves some problems and raises others, and this is one of them. My own thinking has been that issues such as the consistency of glacier retreat with observations may be better handled in the ice chapter, which presumably will be going into a bit more depth on processes affecting glaciers from the ice physics point of view, providing a bit deeper basis for the assessment. The consistency of observations between the three observations chapters could then be dealt with in the technical summary, drawing on the findings from all three. But it is probably going to be helpful if we have a discussion on this among the three chapters and come to a common view. 3. Chapter 1 has a section on new data and data rescue. I guess we should be involved in that, but also Ch 9 on attribution as it has to be worthwhile. Also the new data and rescued data could be useful for model validation. I expect Ch 3 to heavily use Reanalysis- based results. Yes, we expected there would need to be discussion on that. It may involve a subset of people who should be urged to get together as needed. 4. Chapter 3 has SST and all the circulation indices, so here we need to liaise with Ch 5 and 6 and eventually with 9. Yes, agreed, and Kevin and others tried to work that into the outline in Potsdam. 5. I agree with Kevin though on whether formal meetings of the whole of the chapters are needed. Might this be better done with the CLAs and you? There will be a lot to do in Trieste and we want to make efficient use of people's time - it is probably true that not all the people need to be involved when the points you've made so far are discussed. The morning 1-hour sessions with all CLAs are also intended to be a forum where some of these kinds of issues (the broader ones) could be handled. 6. Considering all the above, I reckon we need to meet with Ch 4 and 6 (on glacier retreat, snow, sea ice and temperature), Chapters 6 and 9 on what they expect from us and similarly with Chapter 5 (although I feel this is clear in the extended outline). Finally, Chapters 1, 3 and 6 (and maybe 9) need to discuss data rescue and new techniques. That sounds right to me. I would add your number 7 below into that mix as well. It's really up to you to decide how you want to handle it. But prompted by your message, the one from Kevin below, and some others, I think it will be helpful for us to compile a list of all such issues raised - so I am asking the TSU to do that, combining with another set that we received in the comments from governments (they actually raised a number of such comments, quite rightly). 7. The Appendices in Chapters 3-5 need some sort of co-ordination. Bests, Susan At 11:31 11/08/2004 -0600, Kevin Trenberth wrote: Martin, Susan et al: In thinking more about Chapter 3, I believe we will have issues on who and what is covered on 1) ENSO related stuff Chapter 3 vs Chapter 5 2) Consistency of retreat of glaciers, snow and ice vs temperatures Chapter 3 vs chapter 4. There are probably others, but these may require some negotiation unless it is already settled in your mind? Whether a formal meeting between chapters is needed or whether the CLAs can meet and agree is not yet clear to me. Kevin IPCC-WG1 wrote: Dear WGI CLAs and Bureau Members, Please find attached a draft programme for the upcoming WGI AR4 First Lead Authors Meeting, 26-29 September 2004, Trieste, Italy. Please note the section regarding "cross-chapter breakout sessions". We have suggested four breakouts of this type, but would appreciate any suggestions from you regarding other cross-chapter breakouts that you feel may be needed. We kindly ask that you provide the WGI TSU <[1]mailto:ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov> any feedback you may have by Friday, 20 August 2004. Best regards, WGI TSU -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IPCC WGI TSU NOAA Aeronomy Laboratory 325 Broadway DSRC R/AL8 Boulder, CO 80305, USA Phone: +1 303 497 7072 Fax: +1 303 497 5686/5628 Email: <[2]mailto:ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov>ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov _______________________________________________ Wg1-ar4-clas mailing list <[3]mailto:Wg1-ar4-clas@joss.ucar.edu>Wg1-ar4-clas@joss.ucar.edu [4]http://www.joss.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/wg1-ar4-clas -- **************** Kevin E. Trenberth e-mail: <[5]mailto:trenbert@ucar.edu>trenbert@ucar.edu Climate Analysis Section, NCAR <[6]http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/>[7]www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/ P. O. Box 3000, (303) 497 1318 Boulder, CO 80307 (303) 497 1333 (fax) Street address: 1850 Table Mesa Drive, Boulder, CO 80303 Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IPCC WG1 Technical Support Unit NOAA Aeronomy Laboratory 325 Broadway DSRC R/AL8 Boulder, CO 80305, USA Phone: +1 303 497 7072 Fax: +1 303 497 5628/5686 Email: ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- ****************************************** Please note my new email address for your records: Susan.Solomon@noaa.gov ******************************************* Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- References 1. mailto:ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov 2. mailto:ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov 3. mailto:Wg1-ar4-clas@joss.ucar.edu 4. http://www.joss.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/wg1-ar4-clas 5. mailto:trenbert@ucar.edu 6. http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/ 7. http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/